Bill Meltzer: Vigneault a finalist for Jack Adams Award, Lindblom Update, Camp Update

Pronger big announcement a jersey giveaway.
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Pronger big announcement a jersey giveaway.
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- PLindbergh31

So, on the same day that the Flyers head coach is named a Jack Adams Award finalist for the 5th time (an all-time record) and Oskar Lindblom speaks for the first time (at least for an English publication) about his cancer diagnosis, chemo, surgery and remission, your big concern is that you are disappointed that the Chris Pronger announcement was for something relatively minor.

Very on brand, Pavel.

So, on the same day that the Flyers head coach is named a Jack Adams Award finalist for the 5th time (an all-time record) and Oskar Lindblom speaks for the first time (at least for an English publication) about his cancer diagnosis, chemo, surgery and remission, your big concern is that you are disappointed that the Chris Pronger announcement was for something relatively minor.

Very on brand, Pavel.
- bmeltzer

AV turned the team defense completely around despite not getting a big bump in ES goaltending. Flyers went from #30 to #11 in the league in ES GA/G. PK went from #26 to #11. Those are dramatic turnarounds. Meanwhile the improvement in ES SV% from #28 up to #22 was less dramatic, which suggests that the overall defensive improvement was more coaching/buy-in/systems-related than goalie variance. Offense improved a lot too, from #15 in ES GF/G up to #6.

Meanwhile, Bos is pretty much the same team they were last year, riding strong defense backed by ridiculously good ES goaltending. Their PK jumped from #16 to #3, which is notable, but I still feel like the Flyers turnaround was much more dramatic.

As for Torts.... the Blue Jackets are barely hanging on in the games they've won. And they've seen a HUGE improvement in team ES SV% -- from #23 up to #5. I think their story is more goalie-related and less about Torts doing anything much beyond what he usually does. It's impressive that they've had any success at all, considering all the players they lost and how they looked in net in preseason, but I think they've been riding unexpectedly hot/competent goaltending all year. If their goalies return to just league-average, they're gonna have a hard time winning games.

I think AV deserves the Adams. IMO he's had the greatest impact on his team this year. If I had a ballot, I'd rank AV #1, Cassidy #2, Torts #3.

AV turned the team defense completely around despite not getting a big bump in ES goaltending. Flyers went from #30 to #11 in the league in ES GA/G. PK went from #26 to #11. Those are dramatic turnarounds. Meanwhile the improvement in ES SV% from #28 up to #22 was less dramatic, which suggests that the overall defensive improvement was more coaching/buy-in/systems-related than goalie variance. Offense improved a lot too, from #15 in ES GF/G up to #6.

Meanwhile, Bos is pretty much the same team they were last year, riding strong defense backed by ridiculously good ES goaltending. Their PK jumped from #16 to #3, which is notable, but I still feel like the Flyers turnaround was much more dramatic.

As for Torts.... the Blue Jackets are barely hanging on in the games they've won. And they've seen a HUGE improvement in team ES SV% -- from #23 up to #5. I think their story is more goalie-related and less about Torts doing anything much beyond what he usually does. It's impressive that they've had any success at all, considering all the players they lost and how they looked in net in preseason, but I think they've been riding unexpectedly hot/competent goaltending all year. If their goalies return to just league-average, they're gonna have a hard time winning games.

I think AV deserves the Adams. IMO he's had the greatest impact on his team this year. If I had a ballot, I'd rank AV #1, Cassidy #2, Torts #3.
- Tomahawk

Giroux deserved the Hart Trophy two seasons ago and didn't even get nominated. I'm not holding my breath on AV even though I agree he deserves to win.

AV turned the team defense completely around despite not getting a big bump in ES goaltending. Flyers went from #30 to #11 in the league in ES GA/G. PK went from #26 to #11. Those are dramatic turnarounds. Meanwhile the improvement in ES SV% from #28 up to #22 was less dramatic, which suggests that the overall defensive improvement was more coaching/buy-in/systems-related than goalie variance. Offense improved a lot too, from #15 in ES GF/G up to #6.

Meanwhile, Bos is pretty much the same team they were last year, riding strong defense backed by ridiculously good ES goaltending. Their PK jumped from #16 to #3, which is notable, but I still feel like the Flyers turnaround was much more dramatic.

As for Torts.... the Blue Jackets are barely hanging on in the games they've won. And they've seen a HUGE improvement in team ES SV% -- from #23 up to #5. I think their story is more goalie-related and less about Torts doing anything much beyond what he usually does. It's impressive that they've had any success at all, considering all the players they lost and how they looked in net in preseason, but I think they've been riding unexpectedly hot/competent goaltending all year. If their goalies return to just league-average, they're gonna have a hard time winning games.

I think AV deserves the Adams. IMO he's had the greatest impact on his team this year. If I had a ballot, I'd rank AV #1, Cassidy #2, Torts #3.
- Tomahawk

I agree with most of what you said. AV is a very good coach who was given an improved roster to work with. Improve both of those factors and you get an improved team.
As far as Tortorella, I don't buy the disconnect that many want to make using stats. You can't separate the goalie from the rest of the team. It is symbiotic between the goaltender and the skaters and team defense. Don't discount the system and coaching as a major factor in how good the goaltending is. That's one of the fallacies of analytics. Every team in the playoffs is going to need good goaltending to win games. AV is using the same systems and strategy that he has used forever. He has buy-in and the players enjoy playing for him.
I think I'd rank Tortorella first (he's done the most with less). AV #2 and then Cassidy.

Giroux deserved the Hart Trophy two seasons ago and didn't even get nominated. I'm not holding my breath on AV even though I agree he deserves to win.
- MBFlyerfan

I thought Giroux received votes for 2nd only behind Hall?

I thought Giroux received votes for 2nd only behind Hall?
- arichardson22

Giroux was 4th.

I thought Giroux received votes for 2nd only behind Hall?
- arichardson22

Had voting taken place at the end of the season, he probably would have won, or at least finished 2nd.

Had voting taken place at the end of the season, he probably would have won, or at least finished 2nd.
- jmatchett383

The award is only for the regular season -some idiot

The award is only for the regular season -some idiot
- ClaudeFather

That's not what I meant. Most members of the PHWA, the body responsible for selecting the Hart Trophy winners, usually submit their ballots days or weeks ahead of the conclusion of the regular season. So at the time they were submitted, the Flyers were not a top-3 division lock, Giroux was hovering around 90 points, and he hadn't gone of his final week rampage to lock up the 3rd spot.

Giroux was 4th.
- MBFlyerfan

Wow this whole time I’ve thought he barely lost lol

That's not what I meant. Most members of the PHWA, the body responsible for selecting the Hart Trophy winners, usually submit their ballots days or weeks ahead of the conclusion of the regular season. So at the time they were submitted, the Flyers were not a top-3 division lock, Giroux was hovering around 90 points, and he hadn't gone of his final week rampage to lock up the 3rd spot.
- jmatchett383

I believe you're correct on that. Really the stretch drive and the playoffs are the biggest games. They should not vote before the regular season is over.

AV turned the team defense completely around despite not getting a big bump in ES goaltending. Flyers went from #30 to #11 in the league in ES GA/G. PK went from #26 to #11. Those are dramatic turnarounds. Meanwhile the improvement in ES SV% from #28 up to #22 was less dramatic, which suggests that the overall defensive improvement was more coaching/buy-in/systems-related than goalie variance. Offense improved a lot too, from #15 in ES GF/G up to #6.

.
- Tomahawk

You forgot the role of personnel talent upgrades. Niskanen solidified the 1st pairing, he should get a lot of credit for Provy's bounceback season. Similarly, Braun solidified the third and gave us 2 big, stay-at-home type defesnemen. Then Myers took on a full time role, and Sanheim did not have to play first pairing minutes and so son.

Thanks for linking the Oskar Lindblom article Bill. I was really frightened when I heard the diagnosis initially without the details. The sarcoma Oskar was dealing with often starts in the bones and I’ve seen patients with the diagnosis who have undergone limb amputation as part of the treatment. The disease showing up in between two ribs, and finding it in an early stage is truly great news for Oskar. The video of him ringing the bell after his last treatment brought a tear to my eye.

Great news on the AV nomination, well deserved in my opinion.

Can’t believe we are talking training camp and playoffs in July. Looking forward to seeing them play again, even with everything upside down right now.

I hope you and your family, and all the Flyers family and fans everywhere are healthy and well.

Off-topic, just just watched the end of "The Fog Game." Based on the OT winner, how the hell did either goalie make a save in that game? Parent didn't even move until the puck was well past him.

That's not what I meant. Most members of the PHWA, the body responsible for selecting the Hart Trophy winners, usually submit their ballots days or weeks ahead of the conclusion of the regular season. So at the time they were submitted, the Flyers were not a top-3 division lock, Giroux was hovering around 90 points, and he hadn't gone of his final week rampage to lock up the 3rd spot.
- jmatchett383

I just don’t get that, why can’t they just do it at the actual end. Who decided to just say you know what we are gonna go with X amount of games before the season ends. I don’t think the playoffs should matter at all, that’s what conn Smyth is for and if you aren’t in the cup final you shouldn’t get it.

I just don’t get that, why can’t they just do it at the actual end. Who decided to just say you know what we are gonna go with X amount of games before the season ends. I don’t think the playoffs should matter at all, that’s what conn Smyth is for and if you aren’t in the cup final you shouldn’t get it.
- ClaudeFather

There's no official rule that it has to be done before the end of the season. The problem is, there's no official rule that says you have to wait until the end. Some guys do it after the regular season, some guys do it a few days/weeks before it ends.

It should be required that votes are cast between the end of the regular season and start of the playoffs. But that's not how it's done.

I didn’t know that some cast their vote before the
end of the season. Agree that there should be an expectation that their decision is not finalized until the end of the regular season.

Bill

any insight on Pasta and the unfit to play tag.

Bill

any insight on Pasta and the unfit to play tag.
- wcorvette

Yes. He is all dented.

Bill

any insight on Pasta and the unfit to play tag.
- wcorvette

Contrary to what many are saying, Pastrnak does NOT have Covid-19. He has the bubonic plague.

Contrary to what many are saying, Pastrnak does NOT have Covid-19. He has the Colorado Bacteria.
- jmatchett383

ftfy

https://abcnews.go.com/US...olorado/story?id=71769840

You forgot the role of personnel talent upgrades. Niskanen solidified the 1st pairing, he should get a lot of credit for Provy's bounceback season. Similarly, Braun solidified the third and gave us 2 big, stay-at-home type defesnemen. Then Myers took on a full time role, and Sanheim did not have to play first pairing minutes and so son.
- PT21

The upgrades and improvements on D definitely helped.

But the night/day difference of guys like Jake, TK and JvR has been huge. There aren't really any real weak links defensively anymore, everybody is pulling their weight and giving honest effort. That wasn't happening under Hak, for whatever reason, and a big reason why the team improved so much defensively from last year.

Not just on D, they're on the same page in all situations, at all strengths. It's been awesome.